Let’s talk about fat, baby!

Transcript

Speaker 1:
Irreverent. Entertaining. Cool. You're listening to LA Talk Radio. You're listening to The Dr. Nina Show with Dr. Nina Savelle-Rocklin. Only on LA Talk Radio.

Dr. Nina:
Welcome to The Dr. Nina Show here on LA Talk Radio. I am your host, Dr. Nina Savelle-Rocklin, and I am here to help you stop counting calories, carbs, and fat grams so you can easily get to a healthy weight and get on with your life. That is what it is all about. I want you to wake up and think about your day not your diet because after all any problems with binge eating, stress eating, any kind of emotional eating the real problem is not food. It is not the real problem is what is eating at you. If you would like to call in and talk with me today that number is (323) 203-0815. That's (323) 203-0815. I just want to make a comment first, last week there was a caller who made a comment about food, and he said, “Food is not poisonous unless you're obese.” And I have a feeling I know what he was getting at, and he didn't mean to offend anyone, but a number of people had a problem with the fact… Actually not that he said it, but that I didn't say anything at the moment.

So I want to address that and just say this, food is not poisonous to anyone. Food is sustenance, food is nourishment, food nurtures your body and nourishes your body no matter what size you are. People are obese… By the way, I hate that word. We need a new word other than obese. People are heavier than the norm, I don't know how else to say it, for various reasons. Some people eat too much for emotional reasons, some people eat to stay safe hoping that… Whoops, hoping that they will… Yes, Josh, hold that thought. I know Josh is calling and this is not about your comment Josh. I just want to address some of the people that had a comment about your comment. You know people sometimes make poor food choices, people stay heavier to stay safe. So many people have the idea, the unconscious belief often that if they're bigger they're somehow safer. Safer from objectification, safer from all kinds of things, and also metabolic reasons, all kinds of reasons.

Dr. Nina:
I also want to say there are no quote unquote obese people. There are only people and people are at different weights for reasons that are as different and unique and specific to them. So again, I believe that Josh was just making… He was talking about how food was poisonous to him, and he said, “Well, food is only poisonous to obese people.” I think I know what he was talking about, and I think I know that might be why you're calling Josh, but I just want you to know it was not about your comment. I'm not specifically calling you out. I'm actually calling myself out for not picking up on that in the moment. So Hi, Josh. Welcome to the show. Josh? Josh is gone. Josh is no longer there. Okay. So I hope that clarified. Josh in no way was that about your comment, it was really about me overlooking that. So today I want to talk about the F word, and I know what you're thinking, you're thinking. No, it is not that F-word that I am talking about feelings. No, I am talking about the other F-word. The F-word that a lot of people have a problem with.

Sharon is making the point that medications lead to weight gain. Yes, absolutely. Thank you, Sharon on Instagram. Absolutely true. There are many, many reasons that people gain weight and it is not always because they're just eating too much. I'm going to get to that in a moment. So I'm not talking about the F word feelings because our culture has a problem with feelings. If you don't know what to do with your feelings, well a lot of times that's why you turn to food, right? Angry. “Oh, you've got an anger management problem. Stop being angry.” So what do you do with your angry feelings? Maybe you stuff them down and then get mad at yourself for eating. If you're depressed, if you're sad, it's “Oh, you need to take a medication.”

Josh is on. Hold on Josh. Let me just finish this, and then we'll get to you. And sometimes people are truly depressed and need medication, but sometimes being sad is a part of life. Anxious. Same thing, take a pill. “Don't be anxious. Don't feel sad. Don't be angry.” What do you do with those feelings? Well, if you don't know how to deal with them, to respond to them, to process them, maybe you're going to turn to food for that reason, and I'm going to go on to more about the F-word, fat in a second, but first we have Josh back on the call. Hi Josh?

Josh:
Hey, Dr. Nina, how are you?

Dr. Nina:
I'm well, thank you.

Josh:
Good. So yeah, I understand what you're saying about the word obese. You know this words trigger. They're trigger and they're bad. I agree with you, and I think for whatever reason, you didn't stop me in the moment like you normally do and say, “Hold on. You know, let's not use the word obese.” Because I could have been talking about myself. I definitely have a few extra pounds. You know what I mean?

Dr. Nina:
Oh Josh, it wasn't the word obese. It was that food was poisonous to obese people, but I really wanted you to make your point and wanted to listen to what you had to say, and then we ran out of time. So no big deal.

Josh:
Yeah. That's true. That said. And I think that there's a lot of emotions that are underneath food at least for me and I think that those emotions can spill over into anything really. You know if I was blaming or if I was being mean or something I apologize, but I think there's so many emotions concerning it for me, that it probably came out saying in that way that somehow food is bad for people who are overweight or obese or whatever, but we're not using that word, and I think that I was actually saying at the same time that food was very nourishing for me in that moment. So it can't be nourishing for me and then it's bad for people who are heavier than me, and I think that's probably what it was.

Dr. Nina:
Well, yeah. Thank you for clarifying it.

Josh:
We were talking about how the emotions surrounding food can make one kind of lose their mind you know and even talking about it is very difficult. I tried to do my best last week, but obviously I'm not aware of what I was saying, I'm not aware of what I was feeling. For me food is nourishing, but it was also not nourishing in the other way thinking that if… You know the first time I called was you were talking about how I was hungry when I wasn't even really hungry. So in that case maybe I shouldn't have eaten. Whereas last week I said that it was nourishing to eat when I wasn't feeling hungry. So my whole mind and body are not in sync.

Dr. Nina:
Yes. When we use food to resolve things other than hunger, when we eat, because we're tired or we starve ourselves because we're lonely or we eat because we're lonely and we symbolically fill up, or there are many, many reasons why someone might be turning to food. The idea is to look at food as the solution to the problem, not the problem and it's a lot easier to focus on, “Oh my gosh, I ate this or that.” Than it is to say, “Why am I thinking about eating? Or why am I starving myself? Or why am I doing whatever it is that I'm doing with food?” And be curious rather than critical about it, whatever… If you're turning to food, you are turning away from something else. That is the key, and when you can be curious not critical and say, “What is this resolving for me? If I were not thinking about this, if I were not doing this, what would be on my mind? What would I be worried about?”

Josh:
Yeah. And I think that for me, it's a lot of nervousness. I might be nervous because I don't know what's going on. You know I remember quoting another analyst, Christopher Bolus that said, I think I'm getting this right. That we're afraid of the complexity of our own mind.

Dr. Nina:
Yes. He talks about the unthought known.

Josh:
Yes. So I have that correct I guess, and that we're afraid of the complexity of our own minds, and I feel like I'm afraid of the complexity of my own mind because the more I dig, the more is there and it's scary I feel like.

Dr. Nina:
It is scary and fascinating, and the more that you can stay in a place of curiosity rather than shame. It's always very disconcerting to realize that there are parts of ourselves that are hidden from us unconscious, hidden yet having so much to do with our choices and when you can look at it as solving a puzzle. The other day I was talking to a client and he was saying, “Oh, the problem, the problem, the problem.” And I said, “Don't think of it as a problem. Think of it as a puzzle.” Because when you say, “Well, how do I solve the puzzle?” It's not pejorative. It's not negative. You're like, “Oh, the problem. Oh, the puzzle.” You're just like, “Cool. How do I solve this puzzle?” So think of it as a puzzle.

Josh:
Yeah. And I feel like you've really helped me do that because you're so strong. You don't look strong, but boy are you tough? And when you challenged me on how I'm thinking, I immediately say, “You're right every time.” And also that doesn't scare me, but it certainly wakes me up and I think I I'd rather be woken up than being scared, you know? But sometimes you have to be a little scared if you are really interested because not that food is disease, but being overweight can be unhealthy. I'm overweight. I know I'm overweight, and maybe that's not really healthy.

Josh:
So maybe a little scare is good and maybe I… You know, so. But that's not what really got me, and I wouldn't say that's what getting other people to call into you or have them look at their eating issues. For me, I really was actually kind of curious. I didn't really care that I was overweight maybe I should have, so that wasn't really what I was calling you for and I wouldn't presume that it is for any other person that that's what they were calling for, or being interested in themselves concerning food and so that can also clear up the comment I made about food being poison. Yeah, go ahead.

Dr. Nina:
And again, people say stuff like it's not a big deal. It's okay, and other people could have listened and said, “Yes. I totally agree.” I mean, everyone has a different way of seeing things. Since I heard from a few people about that, I wanted to address it, but regarding what you just said, it's not about me being right, maybe it's about feeling a bit known. Not like I'm looking at you with my giant magnifying glass and going, “Aha! I see behind the mask.” But more, “Hey, feeling understood or feeling known feels good. Not scared.”

Josh:
Yeah. And you know for me, that's a big thing. I think analysts… I'm not an analyst, but I would like to think I sometimes think like one and I feel like people are afraid of an analytical mind that could be because they think they're just going to be completely exposed. There's no one that can expose you more than you can expose yourself, if that makes any sense. Yes.

Dr. Nina:
Well, I'll tell you the way that I think of it and I think of it this way. I had a patient who came to me for regular therapy and then I studied to be an analyst and while I was studying to be an analyst, I saw him in analysis and at the end of his year of analysis which is what he committed to, and he was part of my training and everything. He said that therapy is like snorkeling. You get a little bit under the surface and you look around and it's good. Snorkeling is good. You see some cool things, it's good, but analysis is like deep sea diving to the deepest darkest bottom of the sea and shining a light and seeing what is down there, and I really loved that because you don't go deep sea diving alone. Analysis is not one person inspecting the other, it's a shared journey and it's about seeing things together and having… I mean, it's about so much more than what I'm saying, but it's a collaborative experience, not one of you being analyzed or inspected. So-

Josh:
Yeah.

Dr. Nina:
… thank you for-

Josh:
Yeah. Go ahead.

Dr. Nina:
No, thank you for calling in to discuss my discussion of what you said. I think that takes a lot of courage. You said you have anxiety, but I think it takes courage to have me say, “Hey, Josh said this thing, and some people had a problem with it.” And for you to call and say, “Hey, this is what I had in my head.” So-

Josh:
Well, to be honest I wasn't calling because of that, I was calling because I knew there was some emotions that were going on, I started feeling a little sadness. It might be from COVID, but I do feel a little loneliness and sadness and just not being connected because I really… When I first felt the desire that I needed to talk to someone, and you were that someone, and so there are feelings there that are sort of on the depressive side and I just wanted to share them with you if I could, and I don't know if there's anything more than just to say it really.

Dr. Nina:
Yes, it's a hard, difficult time. So this is where in the world, and this is where there's a problem. People say, Oh, but here's all the things to be hopeful about and here's all the reasons you shouldn't feel that way, and here are all the positive thinking memes and here are all the mantras and here are all the ways that you could feel better, and that doesn't work because it doesn't address the fact that you feel sad and you feel lonely and this is where you have to say to yourself “Yeah. Of course.” Or I'm going to say like you, “You feel lonely for a reason.”

Josh:
Yeah. I feel like one of the worst things that I read was someone talking in the past tense about the Corona virus pandemic. Like “I'm glad that's over with.” And I was like, “No. It's not over with.” You know, maybe because people were getting the vaccine, they just… And that's fine. I'd love positive thinking. Maybe that's what I need. I need to think that we're kind of over it.

Dr. Nina:
That's delusional thinking.

Josh:
But I think I'm sort of left behind. I felt like left behind because nothing's open still, and so it was sort of like maybe I was missing it. So I missed it. Partly it's my thinking, partly it's something I read. It is probably why you shouldn't be reading [inaudible 00:17:58], but I like reading [inaudible 00:18:01], like seeing other people are thinking about and I'm sure to kind of test and lonely and people are moving on with their lives, then it all makes feel so much worse.

Dr. Nina:
Well, yes. When we're all in it together, it had that feeling of, “Oh, we're all in it together.” That didn't last long, and now here you are feeling deprived. You can't live life as it was, you can't see people, you can't connect with people, you can't have a normal life. If you're lonely, you can't go out and see people, you can't hug people, you can't see people in person. It's hard. Of course you're lonely, and of course you feel this way, and so you know I talk a lot about my very technique, which is validate, acknowledge and reassure yourself.

Dr. Nina:
Validate acknowledges, yeah, you're lonely. Of course you are, look at the situation and it intensifies that when other people are going, “Oh yeah, everything's fine now.” And you're going, “Wait a minute. I'm still at home, not seeing anyone. What are you talking about?” And just really acknowledging how hard it is, how painful, how difficult it is and then you reassure yourself, it's not going to be forever, we've got the vaccine on the horizon, but right now it is hard. That's how you deal with painful things.

Josh:
Yeah. And I think… You know, I just want to say to sort of wrap up that I apologize to anyone who is listening that was upset by basically saying that I didn't think that people who were overweight needed to eat or something. I feel like that probably is the message that they got. That if you're overweight maybe you shouldn't eat you know. I really think that's probably what they heard. That's not what I was saying. I was just saying in my own head for me that food was not good before, and then it was good later and now I feel [inaudible 00:20:11].

Dr. Nina:
Oh, Josh, we actually are totally… Your voice is in and out and now totally gone, but I just want-

Josh:
Okay.

Dr. Nina:
… to thank… Oh, wait, you're back. I just want to thank you. No more apology necessary, but just I appreciate the fact that you're able to say, “Oh, I see how someone could have heard what I said and felt this way and acknowledge it.” I hope that you will be as acknowledging to yourself as you are to these other listeners of the show.

Josh:
Yeah. I think that's exactly right. I think being sort of depressed, you try to look at maybe other things other than yourself, and always trying to help, help, help all the time, but that's a gift that people who are depressed have I think, but it also can be something that avoids some of the more painful issues. So you're-

Dr. Nina:
Exactly. I call it nicely dismissive. You know, “Oh, it's okay. It's going to be okay. It's fine.” No, that's not helpful. Saying, “Doe it sucks.” That's helpful. And then you don't just stay in there and wallow in there. You acknowledge it, you validate, and then you think the positive thoughts. So be to yourself as you are to others.

Josh:
Yes. Thank you so much. And I want to say, I love you very much even though I never met you or probably will never meet you in person. I think love is one of those things that is hard to talk about, but I do feel feelings of love towards you for helping me. So thank you very much.

Dr. Nina:
Oh, thank you Josh. Thank you so much.

Josh:
Yup. Okay.

Dr. Nina:
I'll hopefully talk to you next week.

Josh:
That sounds good. Thank you very much.

Dr. Nina:
Okay. Bye-bye.

Josh:
Okay. Bye-bye.

Dr. Nina:
You know there's a kind of love called Agape and it really means… By the way Josh, if you're still listening. Aaron is saying nice job. We have another caller, but first I just want to say this. There is a form of love called Agape and it really means it's not about romantic love, it's not about love for your family member or a friend. It's about that kind of love that I think he's talking about. That sense of warmth and goodness and Goodwill that flows to someone else, and it needs to be more… I don't know. More prevalent in our life. We have too much hatred and contentiousness, but that kind of Agape love, it's around us. We have to see it and experience it and embrace it and I thank you for that Josh and now I have… Oh, I have my friend Kelley Gunter on. I didn't even get to my friend and co-founder of the Binge-Free Babe program. I know I told her I was going to talk about the F-word, fat. So she's calling, I didn't even get to talk about my views of it, but let's talk about the F-word Kelley.

Kelley Gunter:
You know how I am about the F-word. I just did in fact today made a post about that, about being proud and honoring the woman who was the morbidly obese woman. We don't like the term, and not looking at her with embarrassment or shame because she was a fighter and she was determined to find a way to heal, and I was sitting here listening to Josh speak, and he talked about your strengths and I think we've had Binge debates all the time, but you are the sharp shooter. You will hit the bulls eye every time with people's emotions and with what's behind the way that they're choosing shade, and so definitely you are the expert in that. You know, I call you the assassin all the time.

Dr. Nina:
I've never been called sharp shooter assassin, and been so happy about it. Like, yes. I shoot down the hatred. I shoot down the self hatred. I am the assassin of self hatred.

Kelley Gunter:
Yes, and you know each week in Binge-Free Babe. I mean, it's just… We help women, and they see, and it's to me a miraculous watching the transformation in them as they begin to realize everything that's always been behind what they reached for and why they reached for it.

Dr. Nina:
And I also appreciate what you have said often about you're 243 pound weight loss that you look at the before pictures and other people present those before pictures as that was the bad me, and then the new now pictures, this is the good me and that what you learned from losing all that weight was that it's like wherever you go, there you are. Whatever you weigh, there you are. You don't change yourself by changing your weight even that dramatically, and that's why you've got to get so good with yourself.

Kelley Gunter:
Yes, absolutely. And that's exactly. You probably haven't seen my post yet today, but that's exactly what it is. You know that people like to put down the person they were and that person was a fighter and that's shaming that person when you are that person and making peace with that. We all have a journey that we walk, that we have to learn to navigate through and ultimately heal to become our best self, and so speaking disrespectfully about the person we once were is just bullying ourselves and you just said last week, you can't bully yourself into loving yourself.

Dr. Nina:
Yeah. And that bears repeating. You can't bully yourself into loving yourself. You can't hate yourself into loving yourself. No one has ever criticized themselves into feeling good about themselves, because what happens is even if you get to some body that you want, then you're still going to pick on yourself. Nobody has ever gone like, “Oh, I'm so good now. Now I'm going to be nice to myself.” No. Then they just find new things to pick on.

Kelley Gunter:
Right. I think last week you talked about in the group that what voice are you listening to? And I thought about that and I thought, you know, who's got the mic? Who's got the mic in your life? Is it the negative voice? Is it fear? Is it insecurity? Who's got the mic? Because you have to be able to transform and let the positive side of things take over the mic, and like you said, just positive thinking doesn't do it, but healing and transforming that way allows, or at least prohibits all those other things from having the mic in your life.

Dr. Nina:
Yeah. It's about where did you get these negative views of yourself? They come from no… If you have had kids or been around a child, you know that children are not filled with shame. Children learn to feel shame about their bodies. Children fill like just play and feel good and live in the world, and they're having a great time until someone says, “Oh, you're a little chunky or, Oh, you're a little this or a little that.” And then that's the onset of shame because there's something wrong with you.

Kelley Gunter:
Absolutely. I think shame is the number one destroyer of happiness, joy, and peace, and ultimately what causes more pain in people's lives than anything else. It's shame that's behind it.

Dr. Nina:
Yes. And shame is the feeling that there's something wrong with you. Like guilt is there's something wrong with what I'm doing or there's something wrong with what I'm… I should be doing that, and I'm not doing it and I feel guilty but usually it's I feel guilty because I ate blah, blah, blah. But if you feel guilty because you eat pizza, that's one thing. That sounds like, “Oh God, I had too much. I'll have less food tomorrow or whatever. I'll take it easy tomorrow or my next meal or whatever.” That's guilt. Shame is, “Oh my God. I can't believe I ate all that pizza. I feel terrible about myself. I suck. What's wrong with me? I have no willpower [inaudible 00:29:13]. Just mean critical shaming voices and shame is there's something wrong with me for eating pizza. Guilt is, ah, I had a little bit too much and we want to move from shame to guilt to no guilt. That's the key.

Kelley Gunter:
Yes. You know shame is at the top of our list Nina. Your sharp shooting skills. We're trying to destroy it because shame just strangles the hope out of people and it comes from a very deep place.

Dr. Nina:
I'm going to aim my cross-bow at shame. I need to make some kind of like Instagram picture of me with shooting a bow and arrow right into the middle of a target that says shame, and so does everyone else. Everyone else needs to shoot an arrow into their shame, not listen to it, not let it run their lives because it can take over.

Kelley Gunter:
It absolutely does take over and you know it ruled my life for 40 years and so, but living without it, destroying that in my life was the most powerful thing I ever did. So that's why I'm on a mission with you to slay the shame.

Dr. Nina:
Slay the shame. I love it. Well, Kelley I have to check out your posts, but I love that… You know, you take the position of don't love yourself more because you're at a thinner body, love yourself.

Kelley Gunter:
Right.

Dr. Nina:
That is so powerful.

Kelley Gunter:
Yes. So I just wanted to call in and say hi, because I'm always watching everything you're doing because I agree with it, all of it. You know we stand stronger when we stand together, so.

Dr. Nina:
Absolutely. Well, thanks for calling in Kelley. Big hugs.

Kelley Gunter:
All right. Talk to you soon. Bye-bye.

Dr. Nina:
Bye. Okay. Now I'm going to get to the F-word, but here is a meme I've seen a lot on Instagram. You aren't fat, you have fat. You also have fingernails, you aren't fingernails. Karlygash, hold on. I'm going to… Let me just finish this and then I'm going to take a call from Karlygash if you can hold on. Basically, we're talking about fat talk, and to remember that you are so much more than the person in the mirror. The size of your stomach or your thighs does not define you, what defines you is the size of your intellect, the size of your compassion, not the size of your genes and when I say that also I don't mean to say that if you weigh a certain amount you are what you consider a fat, that that is bad and if it is not bad to you… It's maybe bad to the world, it may not be bad to you, which is why I want to offer just a counter way of thinking from this book What We Don't Talk About When We Talk About Fat by Aubrey Gordon.

Dr. Nina:
What We Don't Talk About When We Talk About Fat and she just briefly… Karlygash, hold on. She briefly says that her definition of the word fat is a neutral descriptor for predominantly plus size people. While fat is frequently used to insult people of all sizes, many fat activists, those of us who are undeniably indubitably… Wait, I can pronounce that word undeniably indubitably fat by any measure reclaim the term as an objective adjective to describe our bodies like tall or short. It is used accordingly in a matter of fact way throughout the book that she writes. Fat stands in contrast to an endless parade of euphemisms, fluffy, curvy, big guy, big girl, zaftig, big boned, husky, voluptuous, thick, heavy set, pleasantly plump, chubby, cuddly, more to love, overweight, obese, all of which just serve as a reminder of how terrified so many thin people are to see our bodies, name them and have them.

Well, I also think that it's something that many people who are of size feel about their bodies. So this isn't really about body. You know, is it okay? Is health at any size okay? Is it okay to be fat? Is it not okay? It's about really deciding for yourself that you like you, and if you like you at a certain weight, good for you but if you think that you're going to be a better you at a different weight there in lies the problem. Because you can't lose the parts of yourself that you don't like, you can't lose your shyness. You can't become more confident if you lose weight, you're not going to be more likable if you lose weight. You can't lose the parts of yourself that you deem unlikable by losing weight, whatever your weight is there you are. Karlygash welcome to the show.

Karlygash:
Hello, Dr. Nina?

Dr. Nina:
Hi, Karlygash. Welcome to the show.

Karlygash:
Thank you. Happy Wednesday.

Dr. Nina:
Happy Wednesday.

Karlygash:
So like in all these I found that I have Lyme disease, like chronic one, and I was in denial for five months. I was depressed. I didn't want to… I don't want to be the one feeling like uncurable chronic disease.

Dr. Nina:
I just want to stop you for a second. You just said, I don't want to be the one with an uncurable disease. I don't mean to mock you I'm pointing out how you're laughing away your pain. When you say… So I want to challenge you to say, I don't want to be the one with an uncurable disease without laughing.

Karlygash:
Yeah. Actually when I left, I caught myself too, and it's good that you mentioned it too. I just don't know how to say it without sounding complaining or… Because where I grew up in my family, I was not supposed to complain about anything even if you were like terminal patient or whatever, they would say so what, just do this and that, so honestly it [inaudible 00:36:29].

Dr. Nina:
Karly are you walking or something? I hear a lot of kind of background sounds.

Karlygash:
Yeah, I'm on the streets and I'm trying to find a quiet place, but there is a guy who does the mowing. So I'm trying to walk away from them.

Dr. Nina:
Okay.

Karlygash:
Is it better now?

Dr. Nina:
It is a little better now.

Karlygash:
Yeah. So I was trying to process it for five months, didn't do a great job [inaudible 00:37:07], all the work I did during this five months with you. I think I slowly started processing it the day I watched this, and then basically I started watching all those videos about [inaudible 00:37:24].

Dr. Nina:
Karlygash, we have too much background noise. I can't hear you, but-

Karlygash:
Say that again please.

Dr. Nina:
There's too much background noise. Your voice is not coming in.

Karlygash:
Okay. Is it coming in now?

Dr. Nina:
Now it is.

Karlygash:
Okay. So I was trying to process it during this five month and I couldn't. I was pretty much binging and all terrified, but doing the work for five months just helped me to start slowly accepting the idea. So I started watching all the doctors who say what to do, and he pretty much says it's incurable disease. I know you can do is just in the best case scenario come to the longest possible remission, and it means that I need to do everything correct and it means clean eating in the first place. I cannot overeat on sugar or anything. It has to be clean blend, and I'm like, “Oh Jesus. Thank you.” When I'm fighting-

Dr. Nina:
I have to say you can eat in a… First of all clean eating, what the heck is clean eating? This is just a nonsensical term. You can eat healthy and it can be tasty. It could be healthy and it could be tasty. You don't need to eat clean blend stuff that's going to set you up for… Remember deprivation leads to binging. So don't go to the all or nothing place, go to… Because if you're binging on cakes every day then trying to eat clean all the time to use your term, it's unsustainable. It's going to make you want what you can't have. There are different reasons for binging, one of them is deprivation. One of them is either the anticipation of deprivation, I'm never going to be able to eat cakes again.

One is the experience of deprivation. “I'm not eating cakes. Oh, how I long for them.” Because you want what you can have and the third is emotional. Maybe those cakes are filling a void. Maybe they're expressing something. Maybe they're reminding you of Kazakhstan. So to go into this, well, the doctor says only clean eating, only blend clean food. Well, you're going to set yourself up. If you're a more moderate, you're still going to be treating yourself better and treating your underlying Lyme condition better, but any extreme type of way of eating aka a diet is going to lead to a disaster.

Karlygash:
Yeah, that's the thing. Actually I'll tell you what clean eating is in my case. So no gluten, no sugar, no dairy, nothing which causes inflammation. It means little food and pretty much blend as much as they like… Well, I can eat half cake here and there at the cost of my health. That's going to be that choice. It's not from other people, “Oh, I can eat cake. Oh, whatever. My organism in my system will work it.” No, not in my case. It ruins my bones and everything because it's pretty much bacteria living in myself and feeding on those types of… Yeah. I don't see for now how I can be moderate, and even in this case and even if I'm so strict and like it's not guaranteed that I'm going to feel better, so.

Dr. Nina:
Well, I can tell you from someone who's with an auto-immune condition, who has been on AIP basically for almost two years. Oh, loud. Karlygash you have to think of those things. I don't think of it as clean eating, I don't think of it as, Oh, I'm going to be doing this. I think of it as that is poisonous for my body. Josh was talking about poison last week, food is poison. This is how you deal with that kind of deprivation. You say, that is poisonous to my body and I want to take care of my body. I don't want to feel sick, I don't want to be sick so therefore I'm going to nurture and care for my body, which is a different mindset from I'm only going to eat clean at least in the way you're presenting you know.

Karlygash:
Okay. I guess this can work, but sometimes I really get tired of doing it. I'm just very frustrated because it's not fair to have something which basically doesn't have cure and the best prognosis is just in case I'm doing everything and I'm lucky I pass along to remission, so.

Dr. Nina:
And Karly-

Karlygash:
And it's already hurt… The whole body hurts as much as I'm happy and-

Dr. Nina:
Karlygash, you need to stay with the impact of this diagnosis on you a little bit more. You go right to, I have it ha ha, and then you're talking about food. I am going to suggest to you that you have to mourn the fact that you have it. Deal with the fact that you have it. Don't laugh it away. It's not about complaining, and if it is complaining, it's about acknowledging and if it's complaining, so what. Don't you have the legitimate right to complain about the fact that you have a disease for which there is no cure, a chronic condition? Yes you do.

So instead of focusing on food and what to eat and not eat, which it might be better for you if you can process how this affects you. It is not fair, it feels unfair, it feels wrong. It's another hardship. It's another challenge to be able to mourn the fact that you have it, and generate a sense of wanting to be there for yourself and take care of yourself and take care of your body is going to help you make those good choices. When it's I have to do this for my health, it's not as easy as I love myself. I care about myself. I care about my health. I care about how I feel and I'm going to make choices that are going to make me feel the best that I can feel.

Karlygash:
I liked this first section. It sounds much better.

Dr. Nina:
I'm glad Karlygash. Yes. It does.

Karlygash:
Well, I'm very glad that after five months I could accept it a little bit and start digging for information instead of just making it worse, but honestly, I'm going to complain everything fucking hurts. My body hurts, brain hurts, back hurts and I'm a very positive person, I can smile through pain, but you know it's hard. It's hard.

Dr. Nina:
Yes. It is hard. It is painful. By the way Aaron on Instagram is saying, sorry, you have that and sending hugs.

Karlygash:
Thank you.

Dr. Nina:
It is hard, it is painful. You don't have to smile through it. You don't have to make the best of it. You get to say this sucks, I hate it. The world is unfair. I feel bad, I'm mad, whatever. You go through a range of feelings.

Karlygash:
And you know when you are in pain kind of you face grimaces in pain and you don't have friendly face so sometimes I don't have friendly face because I'm in pain internally but nobody sees it and probably people are seeing that I'm just… I don't know in grimness, but I'm just trying to deal with my internal physical pain. [crosstalk 00:46:02], you're not supposed to come up with this grimness. Sometimes when I'm on groups and I let myself be, all girls texting me like, are you okay? Are you okay? I'm like, no. I'm not okay. I have chronic pain and I also made extra effort to make my face a little bit acceptable for society, which is extra effort than it [crosstalk 00:46:20], pain.

Dr. Nina:
Oh, don't do that. Just say I am really struggling. I'm in pain today. I'm in physical and emotional pain. Don't put on a show for other people. Show that you're-

Karlygash:
I just don't want to bring the whole right to the stuff, and remove the whole vibe of the whole room-

Dr. Nina:
Why do you think that?

Karlygash:
Because I noticed.

Dr. Nina:
No. You think that you're going to be a burden to other people as opposed to the idea that you are burdened by something and other people might want to be there for you and help you. You're trying to protect other people from your pain and what you're going through. So you take care of them and then food takes care of you, and so you can see what a vicious cycle it is. So I suggest the next time you are in a group, don't put on a face. Say this is how I feel and see what kind of response you get. Deal?

Karlygash:
Okay. You know talking to you I feel maybe I should just tell people, you know what? I have really a disease going and I really want to be here, but my face is going to do this because I'm struggling with pain and see how it goes. Because it really takes too much effort to keep this face. Keep a regular person face, but for me it's hard work.

Dr. Nina:
You know Regan is saying, she doesn't think that about you and she's also sending hugs.

Karlygash:
Oh, thank you.

Dr. Nina:
You have this idea and you think that everybody else is going to respond to you the way your family did, which is stop bothering us with your pain, you're too much, and so you have to put on the act of happy you and everything's fine and I'm going to take care of you. Well, forget that act. Give people a chance to take care of you so that the only sweetness in your life you're not getting from cake. Take the sweetness of connection, the sweetness of community, allow yourself to have that. Okay. Let's see what happens.

Karlygash:
Okay. It's just I never had that. So it's going to be something new. Maybe that's why I'm not expecting that and managing it may be not effective way, but if I take into account what she said and we'll expect probably a care from people, but not whatever negativity I'm expecting which was something  in the past.

Dr. Nina:
You're expecting your family? This is transference.

Karlygash:
Yeah.

Dr. Nina:
Like transferring the way that your family treated you onto the groups because the original group is our family, and so whatever happened in the original group we expect to happen in other groups whether that is a support group, whether that is a work group or whatever. So recognizing that and challenging it and testing it out and finding a different way of being with other people so that you can take in so that it's not just about you giving out and helping and being there and being sweet to everybody else. It's about you actually taking something in so that you don't have to rely on taking in the sweetness of cakes and cookies as your only form of symbolic sweetness. You can take in the sweetness of other people's care. Karlygash that-

Karlygash:
I like that. Thank you.

Dr. Nina:
That does it for… You have brought me to the end of my hour. So thank you for helping me end on a positive note of hope. Hope that you can be vulnerable and trust that your vulnerability will elicit care not contempt.

Karlygash:
Thank you very much. I'll challenge myself this week and I will stick to this thoughts and steps.

Dr. Nina:
I just want to say one more thing. Sharon is also on Instagram and she says she also has special dietary needs and Dr. Nina said the same to me. I finally applied her words, and while I wish did not want these special… I did not have this special needs, I'm feeling better and I wish the same for you. So there's someone who can understand. You might be surprised at how understanding the reception that you get will be instead of the awful response of your parents, your family. Let's give it a try.

Karlygash:
Thanks.

Dr. Nina:
Okay.

Karlygash:
Thank you very much. I will. Thank you.

Dr. Nina:
All right.

Karlygash:
Have a good day.

Dr. Nina:
I'm sending you a hug. Giving you-

Karlygash:
Thank you.

Dr. Nina:
… a hug. Okay.

Karlygash:
Thank you.

Dr. Nina:
Bye Karlygash. And not everyone gets the hug from the assassin of shame. That's what Kelley called me. I love it. It sounds better when she says it, but I'm going to go with it. So thank you. Thank you for joining me here today on the Dr. Nina Show on LA Talk Radio. I'm here every Wednesday at 11 Pacific here on LA Talk Radio, and also Instagram now. You can also listen later on Apple podcasts or anywhere that you get podcasts and I also have a free webinar available on my website. Just go to Dr. Nina, Inc. D-R-N-I-N-A-I-N-C dot com and sign up for the webinar called How to Stop Emotional Eating, and someone is asking me, will we be updated for the upcoming live? I'm here every Wednesday on Instagram. Every Wednesday at 11 Pacific so find me then. All right, everyone. Take care. Stay curious, not critical. Be kind to yourself. Have a great week, and I'll see you next week. Bye for now.

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